Author Topic: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)  (Read 787 times)

LongTimeFan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18
Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« on: April 05, 2018, 11:11:50 PM »

This is getting stupid and very unreal.
To begin with, Victoria has to be between 20 and 25 years older than J.T..   She was already working at Newman and had already been married to Ryan McNeal when Billy was a tot... and J.T. is a contemporary of Billy's.   And so now this experienced woman .. to me best exemplified by Heather Tom .. who looked in the window of the Tack House when Cole Howard and Ashley Abbot were "making out" on the floor... and whatever else she stumbled  in on through the years;  and who was kidnapped by a deranged Ad Man and held in a treehouse  .. is now this shrunken little sparrow -- so haunted -- so frail -- so unable to make up her mind -- so stricken -- so pitiful  --- just doesn't make sense!! 

DebR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 711
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2018, 11:27:01 PM »
I may not like how Victoria treats people but Iím feeling sorry for her these days.  Sheís always been under a manís thumb and has been undermined by her father when she has done a good job in favor of Nick in the past. 


No wonder sheís feeling so defeated and let down with J.T. now trying to control her and making her feel so small.

stpauliegirl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 380
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2018, 07:37:06 AM »
Victoria was originally envisioned as being a female version of Victor.  HT could carry that off, but EH has never been able to.  In fact, EH has never been believable as a top executive.  She is much better at playing a fragile flower.

Miravep

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 83
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2018, 10:03:04 AM »
I don't see AH's Victoria as the same person as Heather Tom's original sharp, determined Victoria.  She has never been at all convincing as a business operator, let alone the woman who fiercely and brilliantly developed Brash and Sassy from the bottom up.  This used to bother me, but eventually so much time passed that I accepted her as a different Victoria.  And I do believe that this Victoria would be vulnerable to JT, after she screwed up Brash and Sassy so spectacularly.

SarahTheCat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 900
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2018, 10:21:05 AM »
There comes a point, I think, where you have to look past the SORASing issues, and ancient history characterizations, and accept the current storyline for what it is. I find the current storyline with Victoria to be very well written and well acted. The latest writing involves much more complex issues and emotions than past writing.  It gives Victoria so much more dimension than just the office bitch/failed executive.

I too think of Heather Tom and Amelia Heinle's Victorias as 2 different Victorias.  (I also don't think of Billy Miller and Jason Thompson as being the same Billy).

DianeM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 245
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2018, 11:13:14 AM »
And we have to overlook the fact that Nick has to be at least 45, since he has a son in his mid 20s, and Victoria is older than Nick, so she must be about 50.  This would make Nikki 70 or more, and you know we aren't suppose to think of her as being that old.  It's easy to see Victor as pushing 80, but would he admit to that? That strong, sexy (?), virile man that fell down multiple steps should be dead by now, but we know that isn't going to happen.

Capricorn

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,453
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2018, 11:21:01 AM »
I must be hard hearted because I don't feel an ounce of pity for Victoria.   She's a despicable character but I don't want to see her being physically abused and I hope JT is gone from the show before that relationship sinks any further into this abuse.


If we stop considering recast characters as who they are through the history of the show, how is that going to work.   Wouldn't we have to wipe out all their good and bad deeds and start over as if it's a new character?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 02:09:33 PM by Capricorn »

Capricorn

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,453
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2018, 11:24:32 AM »
And we have to overlook the fact that Nick has to be at least 45, since he has a son in his mid 20s, and Victoria is older than Nick, so she must be about 50.  This would make Nikki 70 or more, and you know we aren't suppose to think of her as being that old.  It's easy to see Victor as pushing 80, but would he admit to that? That strong, sexy (?), virile man that fell down multiple steps should be dead by now, but we know that isn't going to happen.


Yes DianeM and Victor was well into his forties when he married Nikki in her early twenties, so the old goat in Y&R age is over 90.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 08:24:39 AM by Capricorn »

monkeymome3

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 81
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2018, 01:14:02 PM »
I just feel like this whole Victoria/JT storyline is reaching for both of these characters and I'm tired of it.  Just like Nikki and her dry crying over Victor

deirdra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 663
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2018, 01:18:40 PM »
I must be hard hearted because I don't feel an ounce of pity for Victoria.   She's a despicable character but I don't want to see her being physically abused and I hope JT is gone from the show before that relationship sinks any further into this abuse.
That's how I feel about her too.  I much preferred HT's Victoria.

SarahTheCat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 900
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2018, 01:20:02 PM »
I must be hard hearted because I don't feel an ounce of pity for Victoria.   She's a despicable character but I don't want to see he being physically abused and I hope JT is gone from the show before that relationship sinks any further into this abuse.


If we stop considering recast characters as who they are through the history of the show, how is that going to work.   Wouldn't we have to wipe out all their good and bad deeds and start over as if it's a new character?


I don't really feel pity for Victoria but I find it interesting to watch JT manipulate her.


All the characters, recast or not, go through periods of different behaviour that is out of character for them, or their character flat out changes.  I just don't think about it, I just accept, for the most part, what the writers are currently trying to accomplish. I don't analyze whether a character would do something or not. There has to be some consistency - like, I wouldn't accept Nikki suddenly becoming a computer expert, but I really don't care if a character goes from bad to good to bad to good again. I just go with it.

Miravep

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 83
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2018, 04:59:57 PM »



"I don't really feel pity for Victoria but I find it interesting to watch JT manipulate her."


I feel the same way.  I don't pity her, but I do find this a very interesting and compelling story.  Thad Luckinbill has been doing a terrific job too, controlling and at times punishing, yet engaging and manipulative so that I understand why Victoria stays with him.

And regarding character changes with recasts: I mentioned that it did bother me a lot for years with AH's Victoria, but after many years passed, I realized she's been the character for way longer than HT was.  It's not black-and-white for me -- I really dislike when they disregard history, and think continuity is very important and valuable, but in some cases I accept a change when it's been sustained over a long passage of time.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 05:01:06 PM by Miravep »

Peridot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 376
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2018, 07:16:33 PM »
I don't like to see women being trodden underfoot by men, even if the woman in question is that horrid old stick Victoria.  Although I think the actors are doing a good job with the material, this story seems at odds with Victoria and J.T. as they've been historically written.  Don't know why they didn't do this story with Nikki and Victor instead.  They've been abuser and enabler for decades.

Soaprah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 490
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2018, 09:21:22 PM »
I find the current storyline with Victoria to be very well written and well acted. The latest writing involves much more complex issues and emotions than past writing.  It gives Victoria so much more dimension than just the office bitch/failed executive.



I totally agree. It's hard to watch-- and that is proof that the writers and actors are doing a very good job.

Kai

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2018, 01:29:59 AM »
I just feel like this whole Victoria/JT storyline is reaching for both of these characters and I'm tired of it.  Just like Nikki and her dry crying over Victor
I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who's irritated by Nikki's fake crying.  I know I'll catch some flak for this, but she's not the best actress on the show.

Maple Leaf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 346
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2018, 06:14:03 AM »
I have never been part of an abusive relationship, so I canít understand why Victoria is putting up with all this crap from JT.  On the other hand, there are quite a few women on another site who have been or still are dealing with type of thing.  Mostly they are saying itís hard to watch because basically, thatís what itís like. 

I was never a fan of either character, but I feel the actors deserve kudos for their performances. 

stpauliegirl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 380
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2018, 08:17:58 AM »
I don't see AH's Victoria as the same person as Heather Tom's original sharp, determined Victoria.  She has never been at all convincing as a business operator, let alone the woman who fiercely and brilliantly developed Brash and Sassy from the bottom up.  This used to bother me, but eventually so much time passed that I accepted her as a different Victoria.  And I do believe that this Victoria would be vulnerable to JT, after she screwed up Brash and Sassy so spectacularly.
I'd be willing to give up on the original vision for Victoria, but TPTB won't allow it.  Every once in a while they bring up the fact that Victoria is like her father.  They need to give up on that vision so long as EH is playing Victoria.

SarahTheCat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 900
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2018, 10:40:20 AM »
I just feel like this whole Victoria/JT storyline is reaching for both of these characters and I'm tired of it.  Just like Nikki and her dry crying over Victor
I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who's irritated by Nikki's fake crying.  I know I'll catch some flak for this, but she's not the best actress on the show.


No flak from me. I often say Nikki's not a very good actress. Cry scenes are her worst.

Capricorn

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,453
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2018, 11:02:32 AM »
Most actors/actresses who are on soaps for years on end are not that good at their chosen profession...if they were they would score in Primetime or Movies.


I've seen several of them in guest Primetime shows and they are duds.  I've seen them in Hallmark movies and they are worse than on Y&R.


Justin Hartley gets Primetime because of his looks and hunk factor, not because he's talented.  He's still the last Adam Newman.


I saw Eric Braeden in Titanic and he was Victor Newman there = one note actor.


I'm watching Greg Rikaart on DAYS and I see Kevin Fisher = no range of acting.


Michael Muhney was a reasonably good actor on Y&R but he was fired and blackballed.


Camryn Grimes is good on Y&R but her range is just being a snarky girl with friend chemistry.  She has zero chemistry with any male she has been paired up with.


Here are some former daytimers who move on to bigger things:


https://www.ranker.com/list/celebrities-who-started-in-daytime-soaps/celebrity-lists





« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 11:02:49 AM by Capricorn »

Ricky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 72
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2018, 04:14:16 PM »

Melody Thomas Scott is good at playing the hoity-toity Miss Piggy role, but that's about the extent of her range.   She doesn't succeed at much of anything else.   She's a LOT like the woman who plays Brooke on Bold & Beautiful.    Some of Brooke's fans say, "She's wonderful!" but she really ain't; she's actually terribly limited.   So is Miss Piggy. 

Soaprah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 490
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2018, 05:23:03 PM »
The fans who rave over Eric Braeden and Melody Scott Thomas are mistaking longevity for talent.

Peridot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 376
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2018, 12:41:40 PM »
Some of these actors don't have the type of range necessary to tackle a variety of characters, but I think it takes maybe a different kind of talent to play one character for decades and keep them interesting.  Any time I've seen Eric Braeden, Melody Thomas Scott, or some of the other actors in other roles they basically seem to be playing a version of their Y&R character.  However, they're perfectly cast for their characters and entertaining enough playing them.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 12:42:21 PM by Peridot »

franniep51

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 232
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2018, 10:03:41 AM »
I think some actors in soaps have played these characters for so long it is hard for viewers to see them as anyone else.  Whether it be the longevity of a character played or the popularity of the show, type casting does exist.   In the case of Justin Hartley, I have quit calling him Adam in my mind, but he will always play the handsome guy with problems. 


Nikkiís blubbering and hysterics are over the top.  I also think GT as Phyllis also overacts. Nikki is always sad, Phyllis is always mad. Thatís my opinion,  I know I will be flamed for that point of view.

SarahTheCat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 900
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2018, 12:08:39 PM »

Nikkiís blubbering and hysterics are over the top.  I also think GT as Phyllis also overacts. Nikki is always sad, Phyllis is always mad. Thatís my opinion,  I know I will be flamed for that point of view.


Why do you think you will be flamed? This board is full of some pretty decent people. Sometimes we disagree, but I don't remember anyone ever flaming others.

jinx

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 296
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2018, 03:53:51 PM »
I think some actors in soaps have played these characters for so long it is hard for viewers to see them as anyone else.  Whether it be the longevity of a character played or the popularity of the show, type casting does exist.   In the case of Justin Hartley, I have quit calling him Adam in my mind, but he will always play the handsome guy with problems. 


Nikkiís blubbering and hysterics are over the top.  I also think GT as Phyllis also overacts. Nikki is always sad, Phyllis is always mad. Thatís my opinion,  I know I will be flamed for that point of view.

I've gotten so I cannot stand Phyllis anymore. Overacting is an understatement. No matter what type of scene she's in she overdoes it.

Maple Leaf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 346
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2018, 06:38:35 PM »
I liked Phyllis for a while, but now she's on my sh!t list.  I want her to mind her own business and concentrate on what she has at  home.  I love Billy, but I'm not liking that he's seems to be stepping back and letting her go ballistic trying to 'save' Nick from Sharon!

jinx

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 296
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2018, 11:48:45 AM »
It looks to me like Billy is getting exasperated with her continuing activities involving Nick. She vowed to him that things would change but she's right back at it. If he backs off I'm hoping he'll take an interest in somebody else while the drama queen is too busy to notice.

deirdra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 663
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2018, 01:18:54 PM »
Now that Abby is not a blood Abbott, maybe she will become enamoured of Billy.

LucyLou

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 364
Re: Poor Little Sparrow (Victoria)
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2018, 04:00:26 PM »
Now that Abby is not a blood Abbott, maybe she will become enamoured of Billy.


Oh barf, I hope not.